19 out 23 people found this review helpful
Hostile Sales Representative
Expecting an apprentice program, I found another Guru.
Where does this program make all its money?
Is it real estate deals or LARGE upfront costs?
The difference between a mentor and a guru lies in those two questions and I found the answer.
I would rather spend my $5000+ failing and learning from my mistakes. With that much money to play with, I will have much better success elsewhere.
Bottom Line: No, I would not recommend this to a friend
66 out 71 people found this review helpful
The Real Deal
This article appears to be a reasonable attempt to assess the company and the program based on the bits of data the author collected online but there are several problems with the above post that need to be addressed. From someone who has been in the program a while:
(1) The only source this author sites for views on Phil's program (and its supposed general skepticism) is an extremely biased website that is edited by moderators that despise any outsiders who mentor investors besides themselves. Meanwhile, there are plenty of videos out there of people who are absolutely thrilled by the program. Later, I will touch on why some of the people in the program are hush, hush about how good it is.
(2) Short Sales Galore? Where did the author come up with that idea? Maybe back in 2009 when short sales were red hot? Of course Phil's program stressed short sales back in the short sale heyday. But times have changed, as have the deals Phil's students do. Phil keeps his students up to date on deals that are closing, how the deal was structured, etc, and I can't remember the last time he mentioned a short sale closing.
(3) Steep Price? Says who? If you make a ton of money through the program, then it's a bargain. What so many people fail to recognize is that vast, vast, vast majority of people never make any money in this business no matter how many blogs they read, networking meetings they attend or hours they put in. Most people fail miserably at this. And 50% of something is a whole lot more than a 100% of nothing. I believe the most expensive way to go about it, is going it alone. I feel like what Phil charges is a bargain for what you get out of it. But then again, if you can't afford to be in it, certainly you would consider it a steep price.
(4) Qualifications: Phil turns down people based on location, such as if he already has a student in the area. He also turns down know-it-alls and people that he thinks are going to be a nightmare to train. He definitely weeds out those that are broke. Some people get so pissed about that because he started off homeless. But from that experience, Phil learned that if you are broke, its so much harder to actually succeed with this. Better to save up your money and then get going with a little bit of seed capital than try to do it on a shoestring budget.
(5) Not One Size Fits All: The reason why there are different upfront costs to join is that he doesn't have a one-sized-fits-all approach. They try to put together a plan that fits for each new person. Some choose to pay for a higher level of service because those who pay the most get the most hand holding whereas some folks come in with a tremendous amount of previous experience and don't need nearly as much hand holding.
(6) Not For Everybody: Phil's program is not for everyone. He isn't looking to help people do their first deal. His goal is to train up people to be the leaders in their market. To dominate every other investor in their area. A lot of people aren't that serious about this business. Most people are dabblers. At least that is who I have met at REIA meetings over the years. He only brings in those people who his team and him feel are extremely committed to knocking this out of the park. I really like the other people I have met in the program because we all have at least one thing in common, to be the best investors in our respective area. His attitude in business is that this business is very competitive and you either lead or you get squashed. He's training people at an entirely higher level from anything else I have seen out there. And once you're inside the inner circle, although I can't speak for everyone, there are plenty of apprentices that would rather keep their mouth shut about their success because they don't want to draw any more attention to the program. They know how powerful it is and they'd rather keep it all to themselves. Small example: Phil has developed ways to find motivated sellers that no one else has can replicate which he never brings up anywhere except for when you join and it's little things like that, that give us a competitive advantage. Some of his students have visions of expanding their territory someday and would rather have areas around them stay open rather than get filled up. I'm happy with my territory so I'm cool with telling it like it is.
Bottom Line: The program is the real deal if you can afford it and you can get in.
Bottom Line: Yes, I would recommend this to a friendView all 6 commentsHide comments
Oct 31, 2014
Thank you for a detailed review. We felt compelled to address some of your points:
- Point 1: Most of the "glowing" video reviews are very likely affiliate-based (http://www.freedommentor.com/affiliates/). After doing so much research on so many products, it's pretty easy to spot affiliate reviews vs. legitimate ones.
- Point 2: Phil posted a video as recently as about a year ago (http://www.freedommentor.com/free-training/secret-short-sales-foreclosures/) gushing over short sales. In addition, purported students of his have posted their short sale success stories as recently as last month. Curiously, they were all posted the same day, lending credence to the affiliate point above (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW7vUZvlzHw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coR-pXwCmQw, and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvpM64nj29o).
- Point 3: Most of us normal folks think $45K is expensive, especially considering that Phil will take a commission from each of you sales until he's earned an additional $100K off you, on top of the fee. BiggerPockets (http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/112382-freedom-mentor) can provide plenty of examples of experienced RE examples who think it's too expensive and provides a low cost-to-value ratio.
- Point 4: Considering the hard sell tactics that many people claimed to have experienced (see the reviews in the previous point), it's fairly clear that Phil doesn't hand pick each person who signs up for the program, and that qualification appears to be based more on credit card limits than worthiness.
Dec 17, 2014
(1) That affiliate link redirects to the home page when I go to it? I don't think Phil has an affiliate program? The videos of others experiences I'm referring to don't have affiliate links.
(2) That video shows a date of March 25, 2010 on YouTube. That's over 4 years ago. Those other videos you referenced look to be stealing Phil's videos from his channel and putting them on their own channel?
(3) I don't know where $45K came from? But no matter because we can agree to disagree on the cost vs value.
(4) I can't speak to that. I didn't have that experience and those I know in the program didn't tell me they had that experience either when they joined.
Mar 25, 2015
I think I made a mistake in revealing the amount of capital I have access to. I was told it's $15-$20k to join and then profit sharing until I reach $500k. On top of that, after the information was shared with me, I was told I have 24 hours to accept the offer into the program. These numbers seem to be much higher than what they are asking other apprentices to pay which makes me extremely skeptical! However, the program does sound rewarding. I would like to hear true stories from people who have participated. Trying to find this information in less then 24 hours is difficult and maybe the truth isn't as great as they make it seem and a reason for the hard sell.
Apr 15, 2015
Sarah I agree with what you say. Looking back on all the conversations I had with the interviewers, they were very particular in asking how much money I have. When I refused to tell how much I have (it was kind of blunt for a random stranger to call me and the very first question they ask is how much money I have), then immediately he said it is not going to work between them and me. And then for argument sake, I said I have 25k and they offered me 3 variations of the program one each with 7K, 10K and 15K. So I wonder what packages they would have offered me if I said I have 5K. While I diligently went through Phil's training videos on his website, asking upfront money does not make sense when there is going to be profit sharing. Why can't they deduct whatever fee they think the training will cost in our first deal?
Apr 16, 2015
Sarah - Really where you told it is 15K to 20K? How long ago did you interact with them. I had a conversation with them just last week and I also made the same mistake of revealing the capital I had. They offered me 3 type of packages - 7K, 10K and 15K. Did they offer you 7K and 10K packages at all? If not, then it looks like everybody gets a different price depending on what they say they have saved up. That is not good and honest of them if this is the case.
Jun 4, 2015
Such a scam.
23 out 27 people found this review helpful
I had a very different experience than what Lisa wrote in her review. There was no pressure. Instead, it matched up with what Michael Lear wrote. I really wanted to join but was turned down due to my location being Tulsa, OK. Apparently Phil already has a successful student in the area that is doing very well. I can assure you I have plenty of money, was more than willing to pay for the $15,000 level program and still got turned down. So I'm very disappointed I couldn't get in but I agree with Michael's comments that Phil is the real deal. For someone to turn away $15,000 to ensure an existing student doesn't have direct competition is putting your money where your mouth is. Say what you will about him, but I love his YouTube videos and have now experienced that he is authentic, even if it didn't work out for the best for me.
Bottom Line: Yes, I would recommend this to a friend
26 out 30 people found this review helpful
I was contacted and interviewed by an individual named Travis. When I began asking questions about their "creative" real estate strategies, his demeanor changed and he began to become very pushing and demanding. He even went so far to criticize what progress I had achieved thus far. Don’t expect a very pleasant call from this guy if you have questions and are leery of their agency being a scam. Bottom line, they want money up front. And any hesitation on your part is met with demoralizing rhetoric. Hard sell.
Bottom Line: No, I would not recommend this to a friendView all 1 commentsHide comments
Jun 9, 2015
I had a great conversation with Travis. I thought he was very informative and nice and we had a pleasant conversation. I kind of knew up front it would take money to make money. I learned new ways of leveraging money I never thought of before. Thanks for everything Travis, you're awesome.